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The People’s Obedience
12 Then Zerubbabel the son of Shealtiel, and Joshua the son of Jehozadak, the high priest, with all the remnant of the people, obeyed the voice of the Lord their God, and the words of Haggai the prophet, as the Lord their God had sent him; and the people feared the presence of the Lord. 13 Then Haggai, the Lord’s messenger, spoke the Lord’s message to the people, saying, “I am with you, says the Lord.” 14 So the Lord stirred up the spirit of Zerubbabel the son of Shealtiel, governor of Judah, and the spirit of Joshua the son of Jehozadak, the high priest, and the spirit of all the remnant of the people; and they came and worked on the house of the Lord of hosts, their God, 15 on the twenty-fourth day of the sixth month, in the second year of King Darius.
” (Haggai 1:12–15, NKJV)
Restoration of the Temple Resumed
5 Then the prophet Haggai and Zechariah the son of Iddo, prophets, prophesied to the Jews who were in Judah and Jerusalem, in the name of the God of Israel, who was over them. 2 So Zerubbabel the son of Shealtiel and Jeshua the son of Jozadak rose up and began to build the house of God which is in Jerusalem; and the prophets of God were with them, helping them.
” (Ezra 5:1–2, NKJV)
This argument hinges on a distinction between the terms and roles used in the New Testament—like “elder” and “deacon”—and the modern concept of “leadership” prevalent in what the “commercial church.” Let’s break this down and explore it.
New Testament Terminology
The New Testament, particularly in books like Titus (e.g., Titus 1:5-9) and 1 Timothy (e.g., 1 Timothy 3:1-13), uses words “elder” (Greek: *presbuteros*) and “deacon” (Greek: *diakonos*) to describe the specific roles within the early church. Elders are portrayed as overseers tasked with shepherding and ruling (e.g., 1 Peter 5:1-4, Acts 20:28), with qualifications emphasizing character, maturity, and sound doctrine.
Deacons, similarly, have clear standards tied to service and integrity. The verb “to rule” (Greek: *proistemi*, as in 1 Timothy 5:17) implies authority and responsibility, but it’s framed in terms of stewardship, not dominance.
The Leadership Construct
“Leadership” as a standalone noun doesn’t appear in the New Testament and in the Old Testament the words translated leader means head, ruler, king translated.
The closest equivalent might be *hegeomai* (e.g., Hebrews 13:17), often translated as “those who rule over you” or “leaders,” but it’s still tied to the elder/overseer role and carries a sense of guiding or watching over, not a secular CEO-style connotation. Modern usage of “leadership” in churches often borrows from corporate or cultural models—think charisma, vision-casting, or strategic growth—which can drift from the biblical emphasis on Doctrine, Truth, Faith, Spirit, Holiness, Salvation, Deception, False Spirits sin flesh etc.
Why |Leadership over Eldership
The “commercial church” prefers “leadership” because it’s vague, adaptable, and free of the stringent biblical criteria for elders and deacons.
A “leader” is typically a polished figurehead—someone with charm and market appeal—whereas an elder or deacon, per Scripture, must meet a high bar of moral and spiritual qualification that’s harder to fake or scale in a large, consumer-driven organization.
FiveFold
The fivefold ministry gifts (apostle, prophet, evangelist, pastor, teacher from Ephesians 4:11) are indeed about equipping the church, not “leading” in a hierarchical sense. They’re functional roles, not titles for celebrity. Much more like the Old Testament prophets, who are directly sent from God but do not have administrative, practical of financial control over Israel. The elders are like kings and the apostles like prophets when it comes to day to day ruling authority. Spiritual authority and truth, yes, veto rights on daily admin, no.
New Wine New Wineskin
This must be tied back to a core biblical principle with Matthew 9:17—new wine, new wineskins. Jesus isn’t just talking about fabric; He’s anticipating a break from old systems that can’t contain the new reality He’s bringing.
We see this as God’s pattern across Scripture: He clearly sets the terms—His rules, His structure, His terminology—like elders ruling (1 Timothy 5:17, Titus 1:5)—and doesn’t leave it open to improvisation. The Old Testament’s detailed laws (e.g., Leviticus, Deuteronomy) and the New Testament’s church order (e.g., Acts 14:23, 1 Peter 5:1-4) aren’t suggestions; they’re blueprints.
Commercial Church once again Babylonian
Modern “commercial churches” can’t handle this new wine—God’s way—because they’re stuck in old, cracked wineskins copied from Babylon. Instead of elders ruling with biblical weight, they’ve swapped in “leadership”—a secular knockoff, brewed in the vats of democracy and charm, not the throne room of God. It’s a Babylonian import, prioritizing likability over authority, consensus over God’s law. Scripture doesn’t bend for that; it demands a vessel that fits.
So, the clash is structural. God’s system—elders, apostles, high standards—bursts the seams of a setup built on TED Talk pastors and feel-good vibes. The fix isn’t patching the old skin with a few biblical buzzwords; it’s a total overhaul—new wineskin or nothing. Repentance, systemic repentance.
What’s your take on how churches could practically return to the elder/deacon model without collapsing under the weight of those biblical standards? Or do you think that’s the point—they’re meant to be rare and rigorous?
Leadership
Today in commercial church we see “leadership” as a shallow, crowd-pleasing performance—more about charisma and compromise than substance or authority. It’s a compelling critique: a “leader” in this sense is a polished salesman, dangling shiny promises (love, better self-image, assurance of salvation) to hook followers, while not preaching about crucifixion and resurrection for everyone. The old adage—”if you give enough people what they want, then you can have what you want”—nails it as a transactional game, not a divine calling. It’s flesh-driven, not Spirit-led.
Everybody is a Leader
The need the Commercial Church has for quick mass production of baby Christians and the threat the Commercial Church experiences if it actually has all the men grow into Titus Elders is conveniently addressed by claiming everybody is a leader.
The second year is the leader of the first year, every though both actually know know nothing.
This is a lot like child soldiering. By empowering children and are in reality clueless the leader gets zombies to follow him and avoids accountability. The problem off course is that the children are ill equipped for the war and get hurt and die, just be replaced by the next batch.
Mee too
I wish the older Christian would face the fact that much of their lacklustre Christianity si rooted in this lack of proper Biblical discipleship.
Foundation 1, Foundation 2 singing Tithing and Missions is NOT biblical doctrine or proper discipleship.
Famous Founder
The Famous Founder of a big Charismatic church I know actually said the elders are useless and have never in his estimation added value and that all power should go the people on the payroll. Few of the people now ofn that payroll know that he said this and that they are ministering ad sacrificing for such a flawed Christology but that is the price of child soldiers, or shall I say “leadership”.
First Years Camp
If at the first years camp we had Titus Elders and taught 1 Tim 3 then the young men and young women would have been completely redirected.
Qualifications of Overseers
3 This is a faithful saying: If a man desires the position of a bishop, he desires a good work. 2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, temperate, sober-minded, of good behavior, hospitable, able to teach; 3 not given to wine, not violent, not greedy for money, but gentle, not quarrelsome, not covetous; 4 one who rules his own house well, having his children in submission with all reverence 5 (for if a man does not know how to rule his own house, how will he take care of the church of God?); 6 not a novice, lest being puffed up with pride he fall into the same condemnation as the devil. 7 Moreover he must have a good testimony among those who are outside, lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.
” (1 Timothy 3:1–7, NKJV)
The Biblical Model
Contrast that with biblical roles like elders or rulers. In Scripture, elders don’t beg or seduce—they’re commanded to *rule well* (1 Timothy 5:17) and *shepherd the flock* (1 Peter 5:2), often with sobering warnings about judgment (Hebrews 13:17). Kings in the Old Testament, like David, wielded decisive authority, flawed as they were, and answered to God, not opinion polls. Leaders, as you describe them, lack that backbone—they’re too busy planning the next outreach to introduce biblical standards of discipleship, marriage, and general spiritual power.
This distinction between leaders and rulers is sharp: rulers command with God-given authority, while leaders “influence, encourage and promise” to keep the crowd happy. The system creates “leaders” who are stuck in their own right.
The Bible lays out a radical vision of the New Testament church—one that flips the modern model on its head. The Bible doesn’t spotlight a single “Pastor Donny” running the show. The 40-odd churches mentioned—like Corinth, Ephesus, or Philippi—aren’t tagged with one-man brands. Instead, they’re messy, Spirit-charged communities planted by apostles like Paul (Acts 14:23, 1 Corinthians 1:1) and overseen by *plural* elders (e.g., Acts 20:17, Titus 1:5). No solo rockstar pastors with puppet elders or token deacons—you see teams of gritty, qualified men, not a hierarchy of one.
Apostles like Paul, with co-workers like Timothy and Titus, is Biblical. These weren’t lone wolves; they were mobile, planting churches, appointing elders, and moving on (Acts 14:23, Titus 1:5). Elders weren’t young yes-men or denominational lapdogs—they were seasoned, proven in character, doctrine, and family life (1 Timothy 3:2-7, Titus 1:6-9). The bar was high: sober, faithful, raising godly kids, not swayed by cash or clout. And yeah, they *ruled* (1 Timothy 5:17, Hebrews 13:17)—not with a limp handshake but with authority that demanded obedience, not optional buy-in.
The modern “commercial church” is a lightweight love club—low standards, high vibes, Hillsong on repeat. It’s a biting critique: instead of transformation into Christ’s image (Romans 8:29, 2 Corinthians 3:18), it’s about how low the bar can dip and still be “Christian.” Divorce, remarriage, whatever—keep it easy, keep the seats full.
The Biblical Model —apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, teachers (Ephesians 4:11)—is biblical but brutal. These aren’t salaried CEOs; they’re battle-tested, unpaid, persecuted heavyweights who disciple hard, plant churches, and bounce after three years, leaving behind Titus-grade elders. No popcorn Christianity—just raw, holy, transformative power. The catch? That standard’s a pipe dream for most modern setups. Who’s got the stomach for it—churches or elders?
Jesus telling the Samaritan woman that God is spirit, and worship must be in spirit and truth. It’s a loaded statement, and is connected to the broader arc of His ministry and the apostles’ work: a radical break from counterfeit systems. Jesus isn’t tweaking the status quo; He’s unveiling a worship that’s ethereal, etrnal, spiritual, and untainted by human scaffolding—far from the Babylonian facsimiles you see creeping into the modern church.
The “commercial church,” riddled with money, commercialism, and this secular “leadership” obsession, is a hollow shell. It’s not just off-track—it’s doomed. “Only the Virgin will survive” line—echoing Revelation’s imagery (e.g., Revelation 14:4, the 144,000 “virgins” undefiled by the world, or the bride of Christ in Revelation 19:7-8).
